Native West Virginian Joseph Zucchero, born 1940, was a USC graduate from its Director's program and recipient of the George Cukor Award before working throughout Asia, including the Philippines, throughout the Sixties. By the start of the Seventies he had made Manila his home base while working as writer, editor, production manager and occasional actor on projects as far away as India and Guam.
By the time I interviewed Joe in his Makati apartment in February 2007, he and his wife Little Jo were packing up and making the move back to the United States. Here he talks candidly about working with Cirio H. Santiago, Bobby A. Suarez, and even Bloodsucking Freaks director Joel M. Reed!
ANDREW: Can you please tell me how a boy from West Virginia gets to be embroiled in the crazy world of Filipino filmmaking?
JOE: I went to film school at USC, graduated in 1962, and immediate upon graduation my first job or assignment was to come overseas and work on a television series on a floating motion picture studio. The boss of the operation was a former night club singer called Artie Wayne, and when rock'n'roll came up and big bands were out, he suddenly had a heart attack - I think Elvis Presley gave it to him! (laughs) He happened to be married to a very wealthy lady named Vida Halliburton - her uncle was Richard Halliburton, the explorer. She went to him and said, "Now that you have to retire from show business, basically because of your condition, what would you like to do?" He said, "I think maybe I might like to get a little boat and travel around the world." So she went out and purchased a 186 foot minesweeper which had been decommissioned, they fixed it up and turned it into a floating studio! And loaded it up with equipment and their own children, and then took off around the world. When they got to Japan, just about the time I was graduating from school, a student who I'd known in school was working with them as a cameraman and recommended them to me. So I got a telegram asking me to join them on the ship in Hong Kong, and WHAM, I was suddenly out of college, out of the States and on my first job in Hong Kong on a ship that was just going around making movies. Eventually travelogues, and then we started doing something a little more ambitious using his kids that we'd brought along and their friends as actors, and suddenly we were making sorta like a Route 66 of the High Seas! We went from country to country, all around the world - first trip! We got all the footage together, then went back to the States and I cut the show together at that point, and we sold the series into syndication. Then we had to go back to shoot additional scenes and things to complete the show. And that's how I got to the Philippines, because it was one of the ports of call. And it just so happened that we had so many locations there that would match stuff in other countries that we could use, we just decided to do the bulk of the extra shooting here in the Philippines. I said, "I like this place, I think I'm gonna come back!" And I did.
Ken Metcalfe and Joe on location in India filming Lamberto V. Avellana's The Evil Within (1972)
I went back to the States, then back and forth a few times over the years, and then I got involved with some stuff in the Sixties like the Robert Kennedy campaign - I was one of the supervising editors for commercials that we were doing for the campaign, and I had an opportunity to work with guys like John Frankenheimer, he was directing most of the things. It was a crazy rollercoaster ride up until the time he got shot in the hotel. I was there that night. After he was assassinated, the rug was pulled out from all of us who worked on the campaign. I started really missing the Philippines and just wanted a chance to get out of the States for a while. So I came back in the late Sixties, and I'd written a script prior to my going to the States, and while I was there somebody contacted me who I'd met over there who was interested in the thing. That's another reason that brought me back, because we did a little picture called The Yin And The Yang Of Mr Go [released 1970], which is possibly the worst movie that was ever made (laughs), it was a MESS, but it started out great. Again, what can I say, Burgess Meredith got involved, he was directing, and the producer hired him to direct thinking that his name would attract talent to the picture that we wouldn't have been otherwise able to get. And they were right - we got James Mason to play one of the leads; Jeff Bridges, it was his first picture; some Asian actors that were big at the time, King Hu and Irene Su. But the picture was disaster. Burgess decided to rewrite the script, and then we found out - he was a wonderful actor, but he couldn't direct traffic! So anyway, bad experience, but it got me back to Asia and involved again, and then around that time I got a call back to come down to the Philippines and work on a picture, and one thing led to another, and more projects kept coming up, and I just started using Manila as my home base, even though we were shooting pictures in other countries - I worked in Guam, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, and so on. That's what really got me here and stay here - coming back to do more projects.
I was editing a picture called The Kill (1972), produced by a good friend of mine, Rolf Bayer, who had also done a lot of pictures in the Philippines. We had shot the film in Hong Kong and we're doing the post in Hong Kong, and I was working in an editing room in the same building where Bobby Suarez had his office upstairs. I would usually be one of the last people out of the building every night, and I would take the elevator down, it would stop on his floor, the door would open and there would be Bobby. After bumping into him on several occasions we started up a conversation and that's where he said, 'I'll bet you're in the film business, because no-one else would be working these crazy hours!' We went out, we had a couple of drinks, got to know each other, and I found out that he was coming back to the Philippines at that time to start up a production company. So when I finished the edit of the picture I was doing in Hong Kong, I came back to the Philippines, got in touch with him – I recall he was doing a picture at that time, and asked me to participate as an actor [Master Samurai (1974). So myself and another good friend and associate of mine, Ken Metcalfe, worked on that show with Bobby, and Ken and I got involved with him doing scripts for him from time to time, even did post and did editing a couple of times.
Ken and Maria Metcalfe and their kids, 1976
I'm interested to hear how Ken came to the Philippines?
This would have been around 1966. I was still here at that time on that ship that we were making a TV show on. Ken came into the country to do a film for the Air Force, it was a training film called Jungle Survival; he was playing the pilot who gets shot down in the jungle. While he was in town, the cameraman that they were using was also a friend of ours from a show that we were doing, and they introduced him to us. After he finished that, he became friends with the kids on the ship and myself. And about the time he was finished that and was ready to go back to the US, another associate of mine, Ken Loring, who was putting a feature film together, asked if Ken would stay and play a part in the film called Combat Killers (1968). Ken agreed, because he didn't particularly want to go back to Hollywood and wait on tables and pump gas until the next opportunity came along! In the mean time he'd met a lady here who was working for Pan Am, and they got romantically involved, and she was happy to see that he'd stick around for a while as well. We did that picture, and shortly after that's when I went back to the States and Ken went back later – he and his wife Maria got married, and from that point on he was living in the Philippines.
Through people like Bobby and Cirio, they gave you the opportunity to write more scripts?
Sure. Ken and I wrote several scripts together. Of course his main forte was as an actor, that's what he'd been trained for in the States, that's what he was doing. Yes, we worked on quite a few shows, for Bobby and putting stuff together for Cirio as well, and a couple of independent things that we tried to sell.
The Philippines certainly allowed a person to reinvent themselves.
In my own particular case I liked it because if I'd stayed in Hollywood, I probably would have compartmentalized; I'd have put myself in one situation which would probably have been the editing room, but I would never have had the opportunity that I had to do other things – write, act, eventually produce. The Philippines was also a wonderful learning experience, because you can only get so much out of film school, and then suddenly you're thrown into it. Out here we used to call it the Guerrilla Warfare School of Filmmaking! You just had to jump in, be ready for anything, and go for it.
The film you shot in Guam [Noon Sunday (released 1975)], that was an American-Filipino production?
No, an Australian was involved, a fellow by the name of Terry Bourke. Terry I had met in Hong Kong originally back in the Sixties, he was a journalist working for one of the newspapers, I'm not sure if it was the China Morning Post.
He also made a film in the late Sixties, Sampan (1968) - it seems to be a lost film?
Actually Terry worked as a script supervisor on my disaster film, The Ying And The Yang Of Mr Go. While he was doing that, he was putting together the script for Noon Sunday. When he got it together he asked me to participate as his production manager. I said great, and again, some of my experience in the Philippines, limited as it was at this point, certainly came into play in Guam, because here's a situation where there is NO film industry, so if you're going to do a movie there you have to bring everything in! And there's no film crew there, no talent pool down there as far as crew was concerned, so I found myself getting school teachers. In fact I hired the guy who was the shop teacher to be the key grip - because he was the only guy I could find with a pick-up truck! - and trained him a little bit. So we had to pull all these people together, and we had a real international cast on that. We had some of Terry's actors from Hong Kong - Bobby Canavarro, who was his leading man in the Sampan movie, and a fine actor too by the way… I'm trying to remember how that deal was structured. I can't remember the name of the company anymore in the States that he did it with, but they send out John Russell, cowboy actor, Mark Lenard, who was a TV actor, Keye Luke came out and did a part for us, but there we were in Guam. Why Guam?
Why not Guam?
The money came from the government of Guam. It was a company called GEM Productions - an entrepreneur named Gordon E. Mailloux, that's where the GEM came from. Apparently he'd talked the government there into putting up money to fund the project. It was low budget - I haven't worked on that many big budget films, so…
What was the story about?
Ah… It was a story that takes place on a fictitious island, and I can't remember but there's a couple of mercenaries get involved, and something's going to happen, and they have to knock off this guy and get out by noon Sunday and a submarine's going to come and pick them up. They said we don't like each other, and the mission they went out to do becomes less important than what they want to do to each other!
Another interesting film from your early filmography is Wit's End (1971), which I've seen as G.I. Executioner, with Angelique Pettyjohn. What do you remember about that?
How about Angelique?
Again, there was a lot of nudity in the film, and again this was interesting too, shooting a film like this in Singapore at that time, as you can imagine, but this was just shortly after - this is around 1971, it was pretty strict then but not as strict as it became later. We did get away with a lot… We were shooting a scene on the junk, and we had a gal from the Singapore government there, they were monitoring what we were doing. As I was talking to her, purposely keeping her off to one side, she looked over and she says, "My goodness, that girl is naked!" It was Angelique of course, prancing around doing some scenes in the back. I said, "Oh no, you don't understand, that's what we call a full body stocking." She said, "It's very realistic…" (laughs) And I said, "Boy, you got that right!" (laughs again) That was Angelique - she'd take her clothes off at the drop of a hat, or certainly at the drop of a pair of pants! (laughs)
Then came the Corman years via Cirio. The Woman Hunt (1973), for instance.
The Woman Hunt, I worked for Eddie on that, I was an editor on that.
"Just make the Goddamned bat fly!" Tony Gosalvez in The Twilight People (1972)
What was your experience on an Eddie shoot?
The only time I ever worked for Eddie was on that one film; I might have done an acting bit in a couple of Eddie's films but I don't recall - Ken Metcalfe was a little more involved with Eddie at that time. He was the one who introduced me to Eddie and got me involved with that. I know him of course. Eddie had some involvement in Roger's films. There's a classic story from a film we were doing called The Twilight People (1972). Eddie always wanted to make something more of his films than what they started out to be, especially when he was working with Roger, was always wanting to get something inserted into the script, raise it to another level. In this particular case he had an idea, a back story on the Bat Man, and he sent this long telex to Roger explaining that he wanted to get in and explore the character of the Bat. Roger sent back a very terse one-liner saying, Eddie, just make the goddamned bat fly!" (laughs) So that was the end of that.
Dynamite Johnson (1978) is the first film you wrote for Bobby...
Right, I think Ken and I wrote that.
...with Ken appearing as the insane Nazi Kunst.
And I was in that as the mad scientist, as I recall... I was the Doctor Evil of my time!
Who, of course, Ken gets mad with and destroys!
Yeah, he rips my toupee off, right, at a key moment in the film! (laughs)
Dr Hisst loses his toupee in Dynamite Johnson (1978)
What was it like on a Bobby set?
It was INSANE! Working with Bobby, of course, you're constantly writing and rewriting and doing things as you go. Many times Bobby would start making the movie before we'd even finished the script! He'd just be working from a sequence breakdown, because he'd always be eager to get it going. Once he had his money in place he wanted to go out and spend it! I'd say, 'Bobby, we need more time to write the script...' 'You write at night, you shoot at daytime.' 'Bobby, cut us some slack!' 'OK, take the rest of the day off...' It was mad and insane, and fun, great fun. Bobby, to work with, is really interesting. I worry about him sometimes though 'cos he he gets so involved and his health suffers from it. In fact it was on Dynamite Johnson that we thought he was going to kill the AD [Pepito Diaz], Ken and I had to calm him down and I had to explain to Bobby that we could fix it in post.
Bobby seems to inspire loyalty from some and drive others away with his wildly idiosyncratic behaviour. Would you say you're one of the loyal ones?
Oh definitely. I love Bobby, I'd do anything for Bobby. He knows that too.
Why?
I like him! He's a very lovable, likeable guy. And very similar to Cirio, they are two people in this crazy business that I deal with that I find almost impossible to never say no to!
I cut the picture here [in the Philippines] but the sound was terrible, as what happens with most films here. As you know they don't pay much attention to it in the local films, and it's impossible to get a controlled situation here where you don't have jeepney horns going off, or one thing or another. So we had trouble with the track, and also trouble understanding the accents of the Filipinos. I understand them, my ears are tuned into them, but I said to Bobby an American audience is going to have a real difficulty with these people speaking English. So what we decided it needed was a wall-to-wall sound replacement job. Bobby said, 'I don't want to do it here, I want to do it in the United States, 'cos I want to get the most quality out of this that I can possibly get.' So we took my cut to America, and Bobby asked me to find a post-production house. I had some contacts there, so I found a place, we made a deal.
Bobby said, 'OK, I'll leave you now.' 'What do you mean?' 'I have to go to Florida.' 'Why?' He said, 'I have to get the money!' I said, 'Bobby, I've just made a deal for the post, these guys are working on it already. I said I have to give them money next Tuesday!' 'I'll send you the money...' This is where real trust comes in with Bobby, because now my neck is on the line with those guys in Hollywood; we'd made a commitment, they're already working on good faith. I don't know where he went, but we set up a thing with the bank. He said, 'You come here on Tuesday at 1 o'clock in the afternoon and the money will be there.' I think it was $80,000. So I'm sweating bullets until Tuesday, haven't heard a word from Bobby. I went to the bank – the money was there! So I brought it out, pit it in a brown paper sack and headed straight to the post house. Bobby came back and I said, 'Bobby, that's great! You did it! How did you do it?' He said, 'You don't want to know...' And to this day I just don't know where he went to get the money. But you see the faith and trust I had in this guy? Hoping and praying that he'd come through, and he did. I made some good relationships with him.
Did you see Bobby much after he stopped making films?
I didn't see him much or have much contact with him. We'd talk from time to time, but I know he was struggling and trying to get some things together. I'm delighted he's able to resurrect himself as it were. But I was getting busy looking after my own affairs.
Ken Metcalfe in his Manila office, mid-80s
Ken was in Bobby's last film Obsessed [filmed around 1989], and he wasn't looking too healthy.
Ken was alright – he didn't really start to go downhill til the Nineties. I didn't even know he was that ill. I knew he was struggling with some other problems, but in the Eighties he was OK. In fact the last project I worked with Ken on was 1996 when I hired him to do casting on Robo Warriors. He was OK at that time. And then we did the disastrous thing where he played General MacArthur, and slipped and fell. Have you heard that? Oh my God, poor Ken. That was the thing that broke his spirit more than anything else. In 1994, which would have been the Fiftieth Anniversary of the Leyte Landing, the government asked Cirio to recreate the landing down in Leyte. So Cirio looked around and said, 'Who better to play MacArthur than Ken?' So off we went, Ken and myself as one of the backup guys, and we recreated the whole thing on the boat, we had people spread out on the beach greeting us as we came in. It was a big occasion, the President was there – Ramos at the time. We came in, the thing on the boat came down, Ken stepped off and immediately stepped into a puddle and fell! There was silence. You could hear a pin drop, and then suddenly this big roar of laughter comes up from all the people on the shore! And I can hear Ken saying 'Oh fuuuuuck!' as his hat and corn cob pipe went drifting off! Yes it was a very embarrassing moment, and some photographers got it, it made the front page of the San Francisco paper. And I said to Ken – he was devastated – 'Well, one thing you should do now then: get on a plane, get your ass back to the States, get on Letterman, get on Leno, they'll love it! It's a meal ticket, a magic moment!'
It seems he passed away quite suddenly and unexpectedly.
Very much so. I was in the States at the time, I'd gone back – my brother was ill and passed away three days before Ken did, and I didn't even know Ken was sick. I got back there, I'd been in email touch with him, and he was planning on coming back to the Philippines again. I called his number in the States and his wife picked up the phone, and I said, 'Is Ken there?' and she said, 'Oh Joe, he's dying...' I said WHAT? And apparently it went so fast, he must have been riddled with cancer because I can't imagine anything else could have taken him out so quickly. It was a shock.
You worked together for over thirty years!
We were like brothers, we roomed together – in fact his wife used to refer to me as Ken's 'other wife'. There was a little jealousy thing going there! Oh yeah, it was a tough loss.
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